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Re: Information A lot of valid points (PIC) (LINK)

Posted By: Elizabeth Watson (67.75.206.149)
Location: Snohomish County
Date: Friday, 25 July 2003, at 2:26 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Information Why does this happen? (Michael and Barbara Jarboe)

Hey you two,

Yep, there are a whole lot of valid points being tossed around today, as well as a whole lot of true and accurate information. You're right, Chad is a great photographer and I'm sure he's well connected in the world of fashion :)

What I'm talking about is the mindset that models on the internet are less "valid" than agency models. While I do realize that there are a whole lot of "net models" who are flakes and are a waste of time, it does a disservice to models like Dania, Victoria and other great models to paint with such a broad brush. It creates a "lower class" of model, based on their chosen method of promotion, and fosters the idea that we're not worth respecting. Most of the professional shooters here know that this isn't the case, but... the new guys who have never worked with models before don't. There are enough SOB's out there ripping off or behaving inappropriately with models and I don't see the need to foster that notion in anyone else. A model is a model, whether an agency books her or she books herself. The only issue here is the quality of models, and that's something that has to be determined on a case by case basis. It's all about attitude and work ethic, not how a model promotes herself.

And believe me, I understand the frustration over flaky models. I've had two occasions where I've tried to hire a model for a paid shoot and had nothing but problems and flake outs. I might have to hire models again pretty soon and... I'm not looking forward to it.

As far as I was taught, testing and model training are two completely different things. A test shoot is where an agency will put a new model in front of a camera, to assess a model's skill level and what she needs to work on, or when a photographer needs to test a model to make sure that she has the look and can move well enough for a job. At least that's the way it was in NY in the 80's, LOL. Model training and the unpaid portfolio shoots that go with it are a completely different ballgame. And believe me, I spent a ton of time after school learning how to pose and how to walk a runway. Unfortunately, there are some GWC's out there who demand a 4 hour nude shoot, with a full commercial release for the possibility of paid work (that almost always doesn't exist.) That's not a test, that's a jerk trying to rip a model off. This is is probably a huge part of why models want to be paid to test. At least if they get ripped off, some of their expenses are covered.

As far as the shoots that lead "nowhere", all shoots lead somewhere, whether it be to more of the same type of work or simply a paycheck. I'm of the opinion that it's none of my business what other models are doing for money, until it has a negative impact on my life. I don't really care if it's not "commercial" work. In this economy, most models are pretty thankful for any paid work they get, whether it be a magazine shoot, or some glamour images for a website or portfolio. Work is work.

Yes, I think that essentially, we're all just looking for respect and common courtesy from others. We want e-mails answered, phone calls returned, shoot dates remembered and prompt payment. Not too much to ask. However, insulting people because they shoot artistic images of models with guns/ swords/ fairy wings (or is the model with the gun/sword/ fairy wings), shoot for websites, or want to be paid for the time they spend working for a photographer isn't respectful, nor is it professional. Professionals are judged not only by the work that they create, but the way in which they conduct themselves.

Ack, another pesky net model!

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